________________________________________________________________ The Internet Nirvana Fan Club Newsletter - # 18 - April 13, 1999 ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ________________ - Introduction - ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Welcome to the 18th Nirvana Fan Club Newsletter. Another newsletter already you say? Well with the infamous days April 5th and April 8th coming and going there have been a lot happening in the media concerning Nirvana, and Kurt Cobain of course. So I will try to gather some of the news published since the last newsletter was sent out, and as always brief you on the website updates. They are obviously not as substantial as the last time! Finally we can now present the first article by Reidar, who will be writing for the newsletter. The first article is about "Anti-Nirvana websites". ________________ - Site Updates - ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ I have finally started accepting new subscribers to the newsletter again. After a break of about four months with not taking new subscribers I am now allowing that again. The reason for the break was all the instability the site was struck by with it changing host so many times, and the fact that I was not completely satisfied with the software I used for sending out the newsletter. I'm still on the look out for some better software that does the job. The program I use now will probably break down sooner or later with the increasing number of subscribers to the newsletter. After browsing through the list of members I noticed that quite a lot of people had added their e-mail address to the list twice or more. Why? I don't know. Thanks to a nifty little program from CP I have removed all of the addresses that were repeated, so if people have been getting each newsletter two times or more, you should only get it a single time now, each time its sent out, which was of course the intention. Now I just need to figure out a way to get the invalid addresses removed. For some reason certain people think its amusing to add a non- functioning e-mail address to the list. Anyway, let me give a warm welcome to all the new subscribers. Hope you'll like the NFC newsletters! [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/newslet/ ] Speaking of newsletters, Wouter has finished translating the first seven newsletters to Dutch. The rest should follow soon. Thanks a lot Wouter! [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/newslet/ ] Once again I have updated the NFC FAQ. I've gone over some of the existing answers and corrected them for some minor errors, or added more information. For example with answer #14 I have added lots of links to online stores where you could perhaps find "rare Nirvana stuff". Also a little more info on the Pennyroyal Tea single was added, plus more. I recommend you to check the FAQ often. [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/nfc_faq.htm ] To the "Facts and Information" section I added files with some background info on Kurt, descriptions of the songs on "Incesticide", and the liner notes to a war help compilation CD, written by Krist. [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/facts/ ] To the "Interviews and Articles" section I added a story about Kurt's coma in Rome, 1994 and a brief interview with his aunt Mari Earl. Also articles about Kurt's cousin Bev, about "Kurt and Courtney" and about Nirvana's earnings have been added too. [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/interviews/ ] The 8th poll question: "Which Nirvana album is your favorite ?" ended with the following not-so-surprising result: Bleach - 318 votes (12%) Nevermind - 848 votes (31%) Incesticide - 219 votes (8%) In Utero - 761 votes (28%) Unplugged - 342 votes (12%) Wishkah - 262 votes (10%) So, "Nevermind" is indeed the favorite album among Nirvana's fans, closely followed by "In Utero". The four other albums each got 10% of the votes for being the favorite album. What surprises me a bit is the fact that the latest release "From the muddy banks of the Wishkah" only received 10% of the votes. This should give a hint to the people behind the forthcoming boxed set ... we want rare stuff god damnit!! Excuse my french :) Personally I think "Wishkah" is an ok album but there's sooooo much good material out there that they could've put on it, and they could at least have filled up the CD by making it 74mins instead of just 54mins. At least they had the courage to put the energetic early version of "tourette's" on there, as well as the obscure "Spank Thru". The next poll question, "Should the remaining members of Nirvana get back together with a new lead singer ?" can be voted for now, by using the form at the main page. Don't forget that you can still, as a website owner, earn money to keep it going by getting sponsored by ValueClick as nirvanaclub.com are, and very satisfied with being. To become a ValueClick member, simply use the link on my page that can be found under the Nirvana picture that is located at the right side of the table. Just click on the little white "ValueClick" button and follow their links to sign up for their sponsor service. Thanks ... again. As promised I closed down the Internet Nirvana Fan Club on April 5th to show respect to Kurt and as a participant in Katey's "MOS" project. Many other Nirvana sites were also closed down during this day, some were even closed up to April 8th or longer. Rest in peace, Kurt Cobain. Simon over at eil.com, the store selling hundreds of Nirvana rarities, offered to sponsor CDs for competitions. I have for quite a while considered doing a competition with "real" prizes so now I have a perfect excuse to set one up! I can reveal already now that among the prizes will be a "Heart-Shaped Box" promo CD and most likely the "Seattle Sounds, Sound Great" double-LP set, sponsored by a different company. I have not yet decided what kind of competition I want to run, but as soon as I work it out, I will post information about it on the main page and in future newsletters of course. Special thanks to Simon and eil.com for providing the prizes. You guys rock! That's about all the updates for this time. Not a lot, but that is just because its only been a short while since I sent out the last newsletter! I'm sure I'll have more updates to mention next time. ________________ - Nirvana News - ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Now the stories about a new Nirvana album have seriously started to get into real circulation. Thus did MTV publish a story about it on their website recently. Though it did not reveal anything new, it is certainly nice to get it confirmed by MTV that a new album is indeed in the works. You want to read the story too? Look no further: " Former Nirvana bassist and current JAMPAC chairman Krist Novoselic has posted a cryptic message on his website, noting that material is currently being compiled for a future Nirvana release. A reliable source has told MTV News that the project Novoselic referred to will be a Nirvana box set comprising of unreleased material and live tracks gathered by Novoselic and the band's former drummer, Dave Grohl. There's no word yet on whether guitarist Pat Smear, who accompanied the band on its final tour, will be involved with the project. But our source tells us the box could be out before the end of the year. " [ http://www.mtv.com/news/headlines/990407/story11.html ] For visitors of nirvanaclub.com, there is nothing new in the story above as I have for almost a year had similar information online under the new album file. Even the very first NFC newsletter published on June 2, 1998 stated that "the album will be a boxed set containing previously unreleased studio sessions and probably live clips too". Except for a few words MTV almost used that exact quote from my newsletter! (published almost a year before MTV's story hit the web on April 7th, 1999!). So again people, a new album - a boxed set - WILL be out but we do not know yet what exactly it will contain, nor do we know when it will be released. For the absolute latest info on it, go to [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/facts/newalbum.htm ] MTVs "source" claimed that the album would be out by the end of 1999. I do not believe that to be true, as much as I want to, and neither does Rolling Stone Magazine. Check the following story from their web site: - Don't expect Nirvana box set before 2001 - by Jaan Uhelszki. " On the fifth anniversary of the death of Kurt Cobain, thoughts naturally turn to the status of the long-anticipated Nirvana box set. Although rumored for release in late '99 or early 2000, industry insiders insist that's wishful thinking. A source close to the project says it won't see the light of day before 2001. But the good news is that work is progressing on the project. As expected, Nirvana bassist Krist Novoselic is overseeing the project. He's tapped Seattle journalist Gillian G. Gaar to help after being impressed by her Goldmine article two years ago, in which she cataloged all the extant Nirvana recordings. Gaar declined to talk about the project in any detail, but sources say she is combing through tapes and cataloguing them with Novoselic. Dave Grohl has not been involved in the heavy lifting, but will be pulled in at a later date, sources say, adding that Krist and Gaar still haven't found everything they want to include and may turn to fans for rare material. "The box set makes perfect sense from an artistic and commercial standpoint. Plus there is some unreleased material that has been on bootlegs and has been traded around by fans that [the compilers] have access to," says Charles Cross, author of Classic Rock Albums: Nevermind, the story behind the making of the Nirvana's breakthrough album. (Cross is currently working on The Will of Instinct, a comprehensive biography of Kurt Cobain due out in September 2000.) "The live album [1996's From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah] did well commercially, and that was just the tip of the iceberg of the great live performances they have on tape." Interscope Records, the label that recently subsumed Geffen Records, would be the likely distributor of the box set, but a spokesperson for the conglomerate said that they don't have anything penciled in from Nirvana. Fans speculate that the package will include six CDs, but when asked, one insider merely laughed. "They're not even that far along to know how many discs it will include. I also saw one rumor that said some of the tapes were unusable because the quality of the sound was inferior. And that's just not true. " Now that's a whole lot more interesting than MTV's story! As mentioned I think as RS that the album will not be out until the year 2001 or so. I believe that it is certainly not only Krist and Gillian who are compiling material for the boxed set. I strongly believe that other former members of the band and producers are involved in the project as well. The article mentioned above by Gillian G. Gaar can be found in its entirety on my site, courtesy of Jen Johnson. [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/interviews/goldmine1.htm ] Despite the massive campaign to have MTV play Nirvana on their Total Request show for April 5th, it turned out that they only presented a very short segment on Nirvana, showing very short clips of their 10/18/93 Phoenix, AZ PRO-shot video and that was about it. On MTV Europe there wasn't exactly a lot of Nirvana on the air either. They played the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" video during the afternoon request show "Select MTV" as it was requested by a girl in Greece. Very impressive, MTV! You may find some comfort in the fact that the US MTV re-aired Nirvana's unplugged performance on April 8th at 8:00 PM EDT, 7:00 PM CDT. [ http://www.mtv.com/ or www.mtve.com ] While MTV have not been broadcasting the most impressive Nirvana tributes during the April 5th to 8th days, they do have a Nirvana special online, which is somewhat interesting. It includes RealVideo clips of Nirvana's show in Phoenix, AZ on 10/18/93 and an interview with the band. Check it out while its up. [ http://mtv.com/news/gallery/n/nirvanafeature99.html ] As mentioned in past newsletters, Britain's BBC Radio One aired a Nirvana special between 7 and 8 PM (local time) on April 5th, 1999. I taped the show and I thought it was pretty good. It featured interviews with Jack Endino, Butch Vig, Steve Albini and others mostly talking about the recording and creation of all Nirvana's studio albums. [ http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/ ] Thanks to Mario Kurtovic I just received an incomplete setlist to the Nirvana's mysterious and unsurfaced 02/27/94 show from Slovenia ... In Bloom/ Scentless Apprentice/ Come as you are/ Polly/ Lithium/ Rape me/ Serve the servants/ All apologies/ Stay Away/ Drain you / The Man who sold the world/ About a girl/ On a plain/ Heart shaped box Thanks to Clark Taylor, I just received a copy of the April 1999 issue of "Record Collector", featuring a lengthy article about the five "Outcesticide" bootlegs. The article gives a lot of information about the contents of these five bootlegs, though it does have a lot of errors. But nevertheless it is a pretty good article. So pick up a copy of the magazine if you get the chance. MTV news recently published a story on their website about Courtney and how she was dealing with the loss of her husband five years ago. " As Cobain's widow and the mother of his daughter, Frances Bean, Love has spent the last five years proving herself to be a survivor while earning fame as a mainstream celebrity. Yet she continues to protect her privacy in matters regarding her relationship with the Nirvana frontman and chooses to allude to him in interviews rather than speak of him directly. " More Courtney: As I mentioned in newsletter #17, Courtney and her band Hole recently dropped out of their tour with Marilyn Manson. However they have now announced the dates for their upcoming spring tour. MTV news reports: " After acrimoniously splitting from a joint tour with Marilyn Manson last month, Hole has finally sorted out plans for its own month long tour. The tour is scheduled to start on April 30 in Cincinnati. Hole has yet to be name an opening act for its spring tour, but we'll [MTV] keep you posted. " Here are the announced tour dates: May 01 - Nashville, TN at the River Stages May 02 - Atlanta, GA at the Music Midtown May 04 - Ft. Lauderdale, FL at the Sunrise Musical Theater May 05 - Lake Buena Vista, FL at the House of Blues May 07 - New Orleans, LA at the State Palace Theater May 08 - Dallas, TX at the Bronco Bowl May 09 - Houston, TX at the Aerial Theater May 11 - Tulsa, OK at the Brady Theater May 12 - Kansas City, MO at the Memorial Hall May 14 - Pittsburgh, PA at the I.C. Light Amphitheater May 15 - Philadelphia, PA at the Electric Factory May 16 - Boston, MA at the Orpheum Theater May 18 - New York, NY at the Roseland Ballroom May 21 - Cleveland, OH at the Nautica Stage May 23 - Maryland Heights, MO at the Riverport Amphitheater May 25 - Columbus, OH at the Veterans Memorial Auditorium May 26 - Detroit, MI at the State Theater Enough Hole for now? Yep. Back to Nirvana and back to more news from MTV. For a brief synopsis of what happened after Nirvana's too short career, and what other Seattle bands are doing at the moment, try: [ http://mtv.com/news/gallery/n/nirvana990405.html ] Also check [ http://mtv.com/news/headlines/990401/story12.html ] Nirvana's first record label, Seattle-based Sub Pop Records, have started releasing MP3 files on the net of some of their artists. " subpop.com is releasing additional tracks to MP3.com following a series of highly successful releases last month at www.mp3.com. The initial release was substantive as Sub Pop effectively reached music consumers with many thousands of downloaded MP3 files by artists like Saint Etienne, The Pernice Brothers, The Murder City Devils, and Combustible Edison. "There are huge numbers of music fans all over the world starved for new music that radio isn't playing. Given the fact that so many of them come to MP3.com to satisfy those needs, it makes perfect sense for Sub Pop to put our artists' music there. Showcasing music on the Internet is like broadcasting on the world's most powerful radio station," said John Schuch, Sub Pop's COO. Sub Pop Records expects to release more tracks with MP3.com as part of an ongoing effort to broaden its artists' exposure via improving technologies. " SOURCE: MP3.com, Inc. A most brilliant Nirvana discography including almost every Nirvana item you could imagine has moved to a new location. It is now hosted by the nice guys over at digitalnirvana.net. [ http://discography.digitalnirvana.net ] It seems that yet another Nirvana-related domain has seen the light of day. teenageriot.com is still under construction but should open April 25th, 1999. Nirvana's "Nevermind" has reached "Diamond Award" status with its sales reaching the 10 million copies, just in the U.S. ! It is the fourth alternative rock album to reach the 10 million sales mark. It joins U2's The Joshua Tree, Pearl Jam's Ten, and Green Day's Dookie. All very fine albums. Thanks to Tyler for this news. According to the RIAA, Nirvana have sold a total of 23 million albums in the US. The "Anavrin" network will now be hosted by Reidar over at sol.no where his "Never Fade Away" page also resides. The new URL for the Anavrin network is [ http://home.sol.no/~oeik/anavrin/ ] and it can also be found at [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/network/ ]. Thanks to Reidar and the 'Never Fade Away' list for this news. Reidar also wrote a special on Youri Lenquette who shot the last pictures of Kurt Cobain alive, apparently. If you want to learn more about this French photographer, head on over to this URL : [ http://home.sol.no/~oeik/Nirvana/youri.html ]. Thanks to Reidar for this news as well. I'm almost copying his newsletter here :o) A complete recording of the 02/09/94 show in Barcelona, Spain should be on the verge of surfacing to the Nirvana fans and the bootleg traders. As of now only a 10min radio broadcast is out there on tape. I don't have more information about this right now but I'll keep ya posted. [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/bootleg.htm ] Many newspapers were doing articles on Kurt Cobain and Nirvana for their April 5th or April 8th editions. One of the more interesting articles came from the April 5 Seattle Post-Intelligencer. I will put a transcript of this article online as soon as possible. Special thanks to Mrs. and Mr. Channing for sending me this one! :) A new Nirvana related Search Engine has been put online. The " Grunge/Alternative/Metal Engine " is still undergoing work but should function. [ http://www.angelfire.com/il/engine/ ] Another Nirvana banner exchange has started, this time by Benji who runs the inhishands.de website. One of the first, if not the first, Nirvana banner exchange programs was hosted by some Russian server being extremely slow and instabile so hopefully this new banner exhange is better! [ http://www.inhishands.de/network/ ] ______________ - Misc. News - ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ The lineup for the upcoming Woodstock 1999 festival was made public on April 8th, five years after Cobain was found dead. Cobain and Woodstock has really nothing to do with eachother but I couldn't help noticing the amazing line-up for the festival so I thought I'd mention it here. The festival is scheduled for July 23-25 and will take place at Griffiss Park in Rome, New York and not Saugerties, New York where it was in 1994. The tickets will go on sale on April 18, 1999 and are going for $150 US dollars. What's interesting for Nirvana fans is the fact that Dave Grohl's the Foo Fighters will be there, and Hole have rumored to be there as well, although they are not listed in the official line-up, but the people behind the event stated that more acts would be added later on. The line-up so far is as follows: Aerosmith Bush The Chemical Brothers George Clinton Collective Soul Counting Crows Creed Sheryl Crow DMX Everlast Fatboy Slim Foo Fighters Guster Ice Cube Jewel Korn Limp Bizkit Live Los Lobos Dave Matthews Band Metallica Alanis Morissette Willie Nelson The Offspring Rage Against The Machine Sugar Ray Red Hot Chili Peppers Rusted Root Brian Setzer Orchestra The Tragically Hip - Now that's one hell of a lineup! Besides Hole, Guns N' Roses were rumored to appear as well as Marilyn Manson. Personally I would kill to see Aerosmith, Metallica, F. Fighters and GN'R together! Please, no GN'R hate mail! Official Woodstock site: [ http://www.woodstock.com/ ] Now to a couple of funny stories I received on e-mail. First one from "Aqua 3" in Australia who had a mysterious experience on a Monday ... " Your gonna think this is a joke or whatever but on Monday (Perth, Australia time) at 2:37pm, I was watching the "documovie" Kurt and Courtney on my tv in my room and at the time where they announce that El Duce was killed by a train, both my picture of Kurt Cobain (in action at a Sydney bar) and my poster of Nirvana as a group (posing for the Heart-Shaped Box promo) dropped off the wall. To further that, last night there was a blueish glow on and around my H.S.B. promo poster. By the way, I am not on any medication or explicit substances, nor am I a believer in the paranormal crap, but I swear I saw it! " There ya go. Pretty freaky stuff, unless Mr. Aqua made it up. Nevertheless, its a pretty funny story. Now to a different story from Andrew Johnson ... " I was babysitting some kids. I had been watching Much Music (Canada's MTV) all day. The one kid was on the computer which is a heads turn from the TV. He was 5 years old. He never even thought of looking at the TV because he didn't like what I was watching. But when Smells like teen spirit came on, he turned and watched the whole video. When it was done, he turned and back on the computer, not to look at the TV until he wanted to watch Little Bear. This really reminded me why Nirvana is the best. (I think another reason he turned his head was because I turned the TV close to full blast). " Apparently people getting into Nirvana are younger and younger these days! I received both these e-mails around the April 5th to 8th days so maybe Kurt's spirit was haunting these Canadian and Australian homes, who knows. Thanks to "Aqua 3" and Andrew Johnson for these! CDNow, a popular internet music store, are having a custom CD project where you can compile your own CD with artists including Hole. " Select Your Own Songs! Hole. Green Day. Sugar Ray. Iggy Pop. Dead Kennedys. Monster Magnet. And more. Before they were big, they were struggling for a record deal, making demos and recording live. Now YOU can pick tracks from these rockers' early years and make your own Custom Compilation CD. You'll title it yourself and even write the liner notes! Add a new dimension to your CD collection. Only $17.95 plus shipping & handling. " Check it out today at: [ http://cdnow.com/customshop/from=rex:x:cdn:p171 ] The Meat Puppets are re-releasing their "Monsters" album, added three tracks to the existing ones, bringing the running time to almost an hour. " Along with two completely different versions of "Flight of the Fire Weasel," you'll also find the never before heard "Wish Upon a Storm" plus an enhanced portion featuring the video for "Light." - thanks to CDnow for this info. Nirvana played with the Meat Puppets at the MTV Unplugged performance in November 1993, where Nirvana also covered some of their best songs. One of my favorite actors, Peter MacNicol turned 45 on April 10, 1999. You know him as Alan Birch in "Chicago Hope" and John Cage in "Ally". Long live The Eel ! Peter MacNicol - [ http://www.west.net/~phantm/ ] That's about it for this pre-released, yet lengthy newsletter. Don't forget to read Reidar's article below about the Anti-Nirvana websites. ___________________ - Reidar's Column - ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Introduction: Reidar is the webmaster of the popular "Never Fade Away" Nirvana website. The site is respected and admired for its unique design and original material. He has agreed to write an article about a certain Nirvana related topic for each newsletter. Here's the very first article! ------------------------------------------------------- "Anti-Nirvana Sites On The Internet" You are more than likely aware of the fact that there are hundreds of sites on the Internet dedicated to Nirvana and Kurt Cobain in particular. Nirvanaclub is one of the largest of these pages, and also among the most popular ones. But did you know that there is also a huge amount of anti-Nirvana and anti-Kurt Cobain pages out there? These anti-pages often have a terrible setup, and the design looks awful. The first line you see on the page might be "Kurt Go-Bang, ha hah!". Most of these pages are terrible examples of morons on the Internet who have nothing better to do than to make a page like that. But what amazed me is that some of the pages are actually quite extreme. The people who make the 'professional' hate-pages often put a lot of work into it. These pages are not like the other anti-pages, someone has actually done some work on them to make them look like they do. But still, the points that these pages try to make are idiotic. "Kurt and alternative crap killed metal". Yes, metal. Once you have surfed through some of these anti-pages, you will notice most of them are made by heavy-metal fans. The fact that these pages are made by pissed-off metal fans make me laugh at them rather than being disgusted by what they are trying to say. Of course Kurt Cobain and Nirvana killed metal. Heavy metal was at a peak when Nirvana broke through. Of course the people who like the music Nirvana killed will be pissed off. But there's better way to show it than to make an anti-Nirvana page. I suppose most Nirvana and alternative music fans dislike the music that is played on channels like MTV nowadays. We are supposed to, cause this crappy music killed the music we like in the eyes of the mainstreamers. But Nirvana fans are adult enough to keep their mouth shut about it. And most of all, adult enough to avoid making a webpage about it. Cause most people could not care less about these hate-pages. If you surf by an anti-Nirvana or an anti-Kurt Cobain page on the Internet, please feel free to e-mail the webmaster and tell him he is an a--hole. But do not get childish and make a webpage dedicated to saying the band that other webmaster liked suck. The Internet does not need it, and people will not care about it anyway. Until next time, Reidar [ reidar@nirvanaclub.com ] Never Fade Away - [ http://home.sol.no/~oeik/Nirvana/ ] ------------------------------------------------------- There ya have it. The first article by Reidar ! I hope you liked it. Personally I'm a fan of most metal music and I don't share Reidar's opinion in that Nirvana killed this gerne when they broke through, but that's just my humble opinion. Remember if you have comments or questions about the article, please direct them to Reidar [ reidar@nirvanaclub.com ] and not me. Thanks. Until the next newsletter arrives ... rock on, kids! __________________ - Practical Info - ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ * Subscribing Look at the this URL: http://www.nirvanaclub.com/ * Unsubscribing If you would like to unsubscribe from the list and get your E-mail address removed, send an e-mail to me at the address - list@nirvanaclub.com - and in the subject you put "Unsub your@emailaddress". Replace "your@emailaddress" with your correct e-mail address, then you will be removed from the list immediately. * Misc. info If you want to get the newsletter sent to a new address, send an e-mail to - list@nirvanaclub.com - and provide me with your old e-mail address and the new one you would like to use instead. Don't hit the reply button for these newsletters, because the address they are sent from is invalid. If you wish to e-mail me about the newsletter or anything else, email: webmaster@nirvanaclub.com Info [ http://www.nirvanaclub.com/newslet/disclaimer.txt ] * Copyright This newsletter was written by Rasmus Holmen and is İ1998-1999 The Internet Nirvana Fan Club. Complete re-production without permission from the author is not allowed. If you use something from this newsletter, please give me credit where credit is due. This newsletter is in no way affiliated with Nirvana and/or Geffen Records, Inc. The newsletters are 100% non-commercial. -------------------------------------------------------------